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Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
It's still too soon to know how things will turn out down the road in Libya, but it's never too early, in pundit-time, to start drawing conclusions.
I was opposed to an American role in the Libyan war. It seemed like we'd been there too often before, that we've constantly been bogged down in endless wars that we didn't know how to, well, end.
That's the lesson of Afghanistan, a...
Post your comments on the Denver Post article, Littwin: America's lesson from Libya (click that link to go back and read the article).
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
As a long-time independent voter, I don't think any President is born to the job, and Obama is no exception. What Presidents must have, however is good judgement and the ability to learn. Obama has shown that he does with Bin Laden and Libya. I wish he had put jobs ahead of Obamacare, but better late than never. He is crippled, however, by the Tea Party/Republicans personal hatred of him, racial and otherwise, which exceeds any desire they may have to help the economy. Their default/blackmail games in D.C. last month proved that. I predict they will pay a crushing price in 2012 for their political obstinance, and rightfully so. In the meantime, the American people continue to suffer. Obama, however, is beginning to act like a President, and I like what I see.
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Mike, you left out that one of the big reasons Obama FOLLOWED France's lead is, to steal Bush haters mantra,'It's all about oil'. Western Europe relies on Libya for a lot of it's oil. The jury's still out on whether this war was a good move. Are we going to get a democratic gov't or an islamist state? Egypt is looking to possibly go with the Muslim Brotherhood,which is not good. We need a tolerant democracy, not a theocracy. Obama's move has assured us nothing but another bill that has to be paid.
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Silverspruce wrote: He is crippled, however, by the Tea Party/Republicans personal hatred of him, racial and otherwise, which exceeds any desire they may have to help the economy. Their default/blackmail games in D.C. last month proved that.
Umm, how long have you followed politics? I recall the libs/dems had the "super majority" controlling both House, Senate and Executive branch. They could have passed a budget, but didn't. Why? Because they are not leaders, only followers. Obama is the WORST PRESIDENT EVER. Why? Obamacare, Economy, Jobs, Wars, Gittmo, Golf (he played more rounds of golf than pros did this month - Google Paul Azinger/Obama/Golf)
I am on the fence politically - I thought Bush was not the answer, and did a poor job. However, Obama is just too stupid to know that he is not the smartest person in the room.
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
I thought you Lefties were pacifists and now you're gloating over what you perceive as your Nobel "Peace" Prize winner Obama's "victory" in Libya?
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Reality1 wrote:Mike, you left out that one of the big reasons Obama FOLLOWED France's lead is, to steal Bush haters mantra,'It's all about oil'. Western Europe relies on Libya for a lot of it's oil. The jury's still out on whether this war was a good move. Are we going to get a democratic gov't or an islamist state? Egypt is looking to possibly go with the Muslim Brotherhood,which is not good. We need a tolerant democracy, not a theocracy. Obama's move has assured us nothing but another bill that has to be paid.
Wars are always a bad move, and always the end result of many previous bad moves working in combination with each other.
This one is no different than any other, and will just be one of the bad moves that leads to the next one when it comes.
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Silverspruce wrote:
He is crippled, however, by the Tea Party/Republicans personal hatred of him, racial and otherwise, which exceeds any desire they may have to help the economy. Their default/blackmail games in D.C. last month proved that.
Umm, how long have you followed politics? I recall the libs/dems had the "super majority" controlling both House, Senate and Executive branch. They could have passed a budget, but didn't. Why? Because they are not leaders, only followers. Obama is the WORST PRESIDENT EVER. Why? Obamacare, Economy, Jobs, Wars, Gittmo, Golf (he played more rounds of golf than pros did this month - Google Paul Azinger/Obama/Golf)
I am on the fence politically - I thought Bush was not the answer, and did a poor job. However, Obama is just too stupid to know that he is not the smartest person in the room.
**I also forgot to mention - Biden. Holy crap, what a joke. He may be more clueless than Obama. **DISCLOSURE** I am not a physisist, so I am not certain if that's possible.
He is crippled, however, by the Tea Party/Republicans personal hatred of him, racial and otherwise, which exceeds any desire they may have to help the economy. Their default/blackmail games in D.C. last month proved that.
Umm, how long have you followed politics? I recall the libs/dems had the "super majority" controlling both House, Senate and Executive branch. They could have passed a budget, but didn't. Why? Because they are not leaders, only followers. Obama is the WORST PRESIDENT EVER. Why? Obamacare, Economy, Jobs, Wars, Gittmo, Golf (he played more rounds of golf than pros did this month - Google Paul Azinger/Obama/Golf)
I am on the fence politically - I thought Bush was not the answer, and did a poor job. However, Obama is just too stupid to know that he is not the smartest person in the room.
**I also forgot to mention - Biden. Holy crap, what a joke. He may be more clueless than Obama. **DISCLOSURE** I am not a physisist, so I am not certain if that's possible.
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Most do not realize that the rebel forces are made up of the militant Muslum Brotherhood and now AlQadea! Both of which were illegal under the current regime....Looks as the U.S. needed a war, more blood for oil as France wants their share of oil contracts now.
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
So now the left is making lemon ade without the lemons. Littwin is making several points of the right,
No President, even a radical leftist like Obama, isn't going to loose a war. Obama has done just that in Iraq and Afghanistan. And by keeping Guantanamo Bay open.
So now it's Armistice because of the our limited involvement in Libya. This is exactly what Obama and the left have been wanting for years, America's limited involvement. A second RATE country. France gets more credit, welcome to obamaville.
Littwin also is giving Obama credit for what Obama calls bad luck. Obama said that his jobs plan, and the dismal economy ran into bad luck with the tsunami, and the Arab Spring.
The left is in such desperation to have something, anything, positive surrounding Obama that he is now a war President. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Time will tell now Libya ends up. Hopefully it works out for the Libyan people. Wasn't is George W. Bush who said, as the Iraqi people were voting, "that freedom will spread in the middle east."
No President, even a radical leftist like Obama, isn't going to loose a war. Obama has done just that in Iraq and Afghanistan. And by keeping Guantanamo Bay open.
So now it's Armistice because of the our limited involvement in Libya. This is exactly what Obama and the left have been wanting for years, America's limited involvement. A second RATE country. France gets more credit, welcome to obamaville.
Littwin also is giving Obama credit for what Obama calls bad luck. Obama said that his jobs plan, and the dismal economy ran into bad luck with the tsunami, and the Arab Spring.
The left is in such desperation to have something, anything, positive surrounding Obama that he is now a war President. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Time will tell now Libya ends up. Hopefully it works out for the Libyan people. Wasn't is George W. Bush who said, as the Iraqi people were voting, "that freedom will spread in the middle east."
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Sorry but I can't believe that we did not have "boots on the ground". They may not have been there openly but I bet they were there. Does any one believe anything that John Kerry says anymore, I sure don't. I was sitting here thinking about what lesson we can learn from Libya and really I am not sure what that would be except maybe how to not run a civil war or who to ask for help. America should have stayed out of this fight. As always just my opinion.
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
That's the lesson of Afghanistan, after all — that once you're in, you can't figure how to get out. Actually, it was worse than that. We spent many years fighting in Afghanistan while barely remembering that our troops were even there. ------ from Littwin's piece
Mike, it is easy to get out of Afghanistan. Pull a Viet Nam. Bring all of media to Washington for the grand announcement. Make the announcement on April 1, 2012. "I am here today to declare that the United States has accomplished its objectives in the region. And, we are now handing the country back to its people." Load up the transports, and bring the men and women home. Mission accomplished, and end of our involvement in Afghanistan.
Now, well that happen? Hell, no.
Turn the channel to Libya. We don't yet if Gadhafi is defeated. Loyalists are still fighting, and Gadhafi continues to show on t.v., or the radio, annoucing he wants the infidels killed. But, where is he? Is he in Tripoli? In the desert? Has he fled the country, taking with him the three Russian nurses who know nothing about medicine, or healthcare?
I did not want boots on the ground in Libya. And, I didn't want us to stay away as most conservatives proclaimed. We led the charge at the outset with Tomahawk missiles (at the expense of $900,000,000). Then, we allowed the NATO high command to do their job, slowly, ever so slowly.
Is Libya is victory for Obama? I will guarantee one thing. You will not see a post from a conservative congratulating Obama for the approach taken. Despite the fact that every president since Nixon repudiated the War Powers Act, including but not limited to Mr. Reagan, the complaint was Obama did not get a hall pass from Boehner.
Back to the question, is Libya a victory for Obama? Only if you believe he has a good grasp of how to manage our military assets in defeating enemies abroad, and finding terrorists in hiding.
Mike, it is easy to get out of Afghanistan. Pull a Viet Nam. Bring all of media to Washington for the grand announcement. Make the announcement on April 1, 2012. "I am here today to declare that the United States has accomplished its objectives in the region. And, we are now handing the country back to its people." Load up the transports, and bring the men and women home. Mission accomplished, and end of our involvement in Afghanistan.
Now, well that happen? Hell, no.
Turn the channel to Libya. We don't yet if Gadhafi is defeated. Loyalists are still fighting, and Gadhafi continues to show on t.v., or the radio, annoucing he wants the infidels killed. But, where is he? Is he in Tripoli? In the desert? Has he fled the country, taking with him the three Russian nurses who know nothing about medicine, or healthcare?
I did not want boots on the ground in Libya. And, I didn't want us to stay away as most conservatives proclaimed. We led the charge at the outset with Tomahawk missiles (at the expense of $900,000,000). Then, we allowed the NATO high command to do their job, slowly, ever so slowly.
Is Libya is victory for Obama? I will guarantee one thing. You will not see a post from a conservative congratulating Obama for the approach taken. Despite the fact that every president since Nixon repudiated the War Powers Act, including but not limited to Mr. Reagan, the complaint was Obama did not get a hall pass from Boehner.
Back to the question, is Libya a victory for Obama? Only if you believe he has a good grasp of how to manage our military assets in defeating enemies abroad, and finding terrorists in hiding.
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
So we pissed away a billion dollars of borrowed Chinese money (not counting the black ops stuff we're not told about, which might be billions more) to intervene in another country's civil war. Instead of using that money in THIS country, we meddle around in other peoples' business--AGAIN...
...just so Western oil companies can get preferred contracts over those from China, Brazil, India, and Russia:
Libya Rebel Oil Official Says China, Russia Will Have Trouble Getting New Deals
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-201 ... 14270.html
Rebels might redraw Libya’s oil contracts http://rt.com/news/oil-contracts-libya-russia-645/
...just so Western oil companies can get preferred contracts over those from China, Brazil, India, and Russia:
Libya Rebel Oil Official Says China, Russia Will Have Trouble Getting New Deals
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-201 ... 14270.html
Rebels might redraw Libya’s oil contracts http://rt.com/news/oil-contracts-libya-russia-645/
I warned you people back in 2007 that Obama was going to be a carbon-copy of Bush and would continue most of his policies. And you laughed at me. All I have to say about that is:
DO YOU HEAR ME NOW???????
DO YOU HEAR ME NOW???????
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
We spent many years fighting in Afghanistan while barely remembering that our troops were even there.
That scenario has been a recent one, but why is that Mike?
Could it be because when Bush was running the show the media reminded us by constantly showcasing the war protesters, running daily body counts and stories about American soldiers committing war crimes?
Once Obama got in office and continued the Bush Afghan strategy, suddenly the media's interest somehow instantly changed and negative coverage was almost non existent, not to mention the war protests.
In any case, the Libyan war has worked, so far, just the way he hoped it would...
Obama declared the Libya war would last "days, not weeks". It's been going on for almost six months now. Have you been living in some sort of time warp?
This coalition actually was a coalition.
Sorry Mike, try as you might but the facts say otherwise.
1991 Gulf War (32 countries participating), the 1995 Bosnia mission (24 countries), the 1999 Kosovo mission (19 countries), the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan (48 countries), and the 2003 invasion of Iraq (40 countries), at the height of the size of each coalition. As of today, only 15 countries, including the United States, have committed to providing a military contribution to the Libya war.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_u ... 0final.pdf
Mike, I know its your job to defend Obama at all costs, but making stuff up to do so is really lame and insulting to your readers.
We're not all as gullible as you would like to think.
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Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Snarkster,
You must be gullible, if you cite those previous "coalition" numbers as based in some kind of reality. In Libya, France has actually flown the most sorties.
Your quote of Obama -- which is one of those sources said quotes anyway -- is taken out of context. According to the sources, he said U.S. forces would take the lead for days, not weeks -- not that the war would be over.
The time I'm referring to when the Afghan war was basically forgotten began almost as soon as we went into Iraq.
As for defending Obama, I've been a critic of the Libyan decision since we went in there. I still think it was a bad idea. I end my column saying I hope he doesn't think it means anything more than things have worked out, so far, in Libya. I just think it's funny to see the pro-Iraq war people can't give Obama credit for what has, so far, worked pretty much the way anyone could have hoped.
Mike Littwin
You must be gullible, if you cite those previous "coalition" numbers as based in some kind of reality. In Libya, France has actually flown the most sorties.
Your quote of Obama -- which is one of those sources said quotes anyway -- is taken out of context. According to the sources, he said U.S. forces would take the lead for days, not weeks -- not that the war would be over.
The time I'm referring to when the Afghan war was basically forgotten began almost as soon as we went into Iraq.
As for defending Obama, I've been a critic of the Libyan decision since we went in there. I still think it was a bad idea. I end my column saying I hope he doesn't think it means anything more than things have worked out, so far, in Libya. I just think it's funny to see the pro-Iraq war people can't give Obama credit for what has, so far, worked pretty much the way anyone could have hoped.
Mike Littwin
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
Wars are just plain stupid demonstrations of power and ego. Vietnam wounded a generation, not just those who fought overseas, but those who fought it at home. Iraq was a mistake from the beginning, based on lies and the conceit of the people in power. Would it have gone the way of other Arab countries this spring if we would have just let it alone? Afghanistan has no clear purpose now that Al-qaeda's head has been bitten off. Smart bombs have done more damage than invasion. Libya is still a question mark.
Obama is growing on me. He's not flashy or chest pounding, but he has done a few things that have impressed me. Like getting Osama bin laden, appointing people who can do their jobs like FEMA head Napolitano, attempting to restart the economy by building and repairing infrastructure. The only thing I see republicans doing is trying to unseat democrats. Worthless.
Obama is growing on me. He's not flashy or chest pounding, but he has done a few things that have impressed me. Like getting Osama bin laden, appointing people who can do their jobs like FEMA head Napolitano, attempting to restart the economy by building and repairing infrastructure. The only thing I see republicans doing is trying to unseat democrats. Worthless.
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
mike_littwin wrote:I just think it's funny to see the pro-Iraq war people can't give Obama credit for what has, so far, worked pretty much the way anyone could have hoped.
Mike Littwin
I think the reluctance comes (at least from me as I was a supporter of our original missions in Afghanistan and Iraq) to a large degree because Libya and Gadhafi posed no imminent danger or strategic threat to the USA, to US interests abroad, or to any of our NATO allies. This truly was a war of choice and for what appears, to a great degree, to be about oil destined for western Europe. Humanitarian reasons? 1000s have been slaughtered in Syria in the past 2 months and we do nothing. Same with Sudan. How about 100s of Coptic Christians being murdered and persecuted in Egypt - by those WE supported and that deposed Mubarak? They raped Lara Logan of CBS in broad daylight in Tarir Square and we hardly heard a word about it.
In hindsight it appears that most of the concerns about WMDs in Iraq were overblown, to say the least. But there never should have been any doubt at all had Saddam complied with the terms of the Gulf War Ceasefire Agreement. He never did. The Gulf War never really ended. He was given more chances than any tyrant and mass murdering SOB deserves over 12 years while he fired missiles on UK/US pilots patrolling the no-fly zones, 5000 Iraqis died each month under UN sanctions, and Oil-For-Food BILLIONS flowed to Saddam and Sons - that he used to finance Islamic terrorism and pay bounties to Pali suicide bomber's families. We were attacked from Afghanistan so that invasion was 100% justified. We can argue the mission and the subsequent tactics all day long.
Just 5 years ago Condi Rice was making nice with Gadhafi - and it appears he had quite the crush on her too!! After he fessed up and surrendered much/some of his WMDs (after he saw what happened after we took out Saddam) we threw him a bone and tried to get him back into the community of nations and started trade talks. Now, with no threat to the USA and with minimal knowledge about who wants to take control of this oil rich country and with a huge tidal wave of Muslim/Jihadist militancy and uprisings across the Middle East and N Africa we decide to change sides (as Obama did before with Mubarak - but not with the Green Movement in Iran in 2009 and not with Assad in Syria) and support this insurgent group.
There is no consistency in our foreign policy in this part of world, it would appear. Why do we support some Muslim tyrants but not others? This goes back long before Obama, just to be clear, and it has probably caused as many problems as it has solved, maybe more. I think three things play a major role - oil, WMDs, and are they on "our side". The "our side" thing goes back to the Cold War and old habits die hard.
I am glad that things appear to be heading for a "good" resolution, but this is far from over and no one better be hiring the caterer or booking the band for the celebration party just yet. As with all our missions in this part of the world the jury is out and will be for many months or even years. If al Qaeda, Iran, Hezzbollah, or the Muslim Brotherhood are inside this "freedom" movement in Libya and they set up a terror state (as once existed there under Gadhafi) with all that oil money, we might just have to send the whole Sixth Fleet over and a Marine Expeditionary Force into Libya to do what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope not. I really hope not.
Last edited by MJCZ on August 28th, 2011, 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
1991 Gulf War (32 countries participating), the 1995 Bosnia mission (24 countries), the 1999 Kosovo mission (19 countries), the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan (48 countries), and the 2003 invasion of Iraq (40 countries), at the height of the size of each coalition. As of today, only 15 countries, including the United States, have committed to providing a military contribution to the Libya war.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_u ... 0final.pdf
Devil's in the details, Snarky. Although I can't comment about the other conflicts, the "coalition of the willing" in the Iraq war was one of the biggest jokes to come out of the Iraq-invasion PR machine (which is really saying something). That invasion was four countries: U.S., U.K., Australia and Poland. The "coalition of the willing" became a list that was ever-changing and eventually came to represent countries that merely ostensibly approved of the action (there are also reports that the White House used the carrot-on-a-stick method of foreign aid to get countries to agree to be on the list). Take a look at these numbers:
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/ir ... index.html
To say that 40 countries invaded Iraq is simply not accurate. Example: what, exactly, was Tonga's contribution?
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
mike_littwin wrote:I just think it's funny to see the pro-Iraq war people can't give Obama credit for what has, so far, worked pretty much the way anyone could have hoped.
Of course, we also have Statesmen who are principled and committed to peace and non-interventionism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQus52COlSI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZ5cpaPlf4
I warned you people back in 2007 that Obama was going to be a carbon-copy of Bush and would continue most of his policies. And you laughed at me. All I have to say about that is:
DO YOU HEAR ME NOW???????
DO YOU HEAR ME NOW???????
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
DenverDixie wrote:Wars are just plain stupid demonstrations of power and ego. Vietnam wounded a generation, not just those who fought overseas, but those who fought it at home. Iraq was a mistake from the beginning, based on lies and the conceit of the people in power. Would it have gone the way of other Arab countries this spring if we would have just let it alone? Afghanistan has no clear purpose now that Al-qaeda's head has been bitten off. Smart bombs have done more damage than invasion. Libya is still a question mark.
Obama is growing on me. He's not flashy or chest pounding, but he has done a few things that have impressed me. Like getting Osama bin laden, appointing people who can do their jobs like FEMA head Napolitano, attempting to restart the economy by building and repairing infrastructure. The only thing I see republicans doing is trying to unseat democrats. Worthless.
I can appreciate the comfort of believing our president is doing a good job, Dixie, and surely the issues you cite reflect positively on Obama, but I believe he has failed to meet his Article II duty to "take Care that the laws be faithfully executed," and undermined our democratic process by his failure to use his office to promote an agenda composed of policies he well knows are in the best interest of the people of the United States. These two failures are closely related and, in my opinion, unforgivable. Only if the Republicans nominate a looney toon like Bachman or a knuckle dragging carny like Perry will I even consider voting a second time for Obama. If Huntsman is the nominee, I will vote for him, and should not be at all surprised if he becomes the best Republican president since Eisenhower.
Dick Wormtongue Cheney will be in the news for several weeks upcoming to promote his new book. This will revive the torture "argument," an argument we have never truly engaged because of the political cowardice of Obama. Most ingominiously, president Obama actually invoked the Nuremburg defense to immunize the lower level operatives who actually carried out the crimes. Because Obama chose not to pursue charges against the war criminals in the Bush administration, led by Cheney and Rumsfeld, proponents of the efficacy and legality of torture are left essentially unopposed. Those opposed to torture and in favor of the rule of law are denied the support of the "justice" system and left to argue their position in the abstract, with no de facto legal support whatsoever. The damage to the moral fabric our country and to the rule of law is immeasruable. Our children and our children's children will pay a horrific price for this unconscionable act of political cowardice.
On issue after critical issue Obama has capitulated to Republican pressure without ever proposing and arguing in favor of essential progressive policies, leaving the "debate" entirely in the hands of the Republicans. Because Obama gave away single-payer Medicare for all before even seriously asking for it, the majority of Americans remain utterly ignorant of the enormous economic and social benefits such a plan would beget. As such, we are stuck with a half-measure health "reform" law that reinforces the already crippling power of insurance companies to dictate who is covered and how much it will cost. The American people were entitled to have the debate, but we were denied this right by Obama.
Obama capitulated on reauthorizing the Bush tax cuts with barely a whimper. The result was a lost opportunity to once and for all debunk the idiotic, ahistorical "voodoo economics" of trickle down theory. Evidence of the past thirty years incontrovertably proves that lower taxes on the rich creates no jobs, but only widens the gap between the haves and the have nots. The American people were entitled to have the debate, but we were denied this right by Obama.
Most recently the president's penchant for handing over the cash before the robber comes in the store and pulls the gun was demonstrated in the "debt crisis" debacle. Again the president allowed Republicans to take control of the debate by defining the issue as one of reducing spending when the immediate crisis was the vicious cycle of unemployment, lack of consumer demand, anemic growth, all three feeding off each other and contributing to the debt problem by reducing revenues to historic lows. From the beginning Obama should have said "jobs and economic growth" every time a Republican said out of control spending and no new taxes. But he didn't. Instead he gave Republicans complete control of the debate, diverting attention from the real problems by responding to a contrived crisis, losing precious time in formulating an effective job growth agenda, and leaving the majority of the country believing a long term deficit reduction plan has something to do with getting us out of this recession.
In short, Obama's failure to take a leadership position on a single major issue and then stand by it on principle or efficacy of policy has denied the American people their rightful voice in the democratic process our republic requires. Others may consider this excusable. I do not.
Last edited by paperboy60657 on August 28th, 2011, 4:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"These days, I look in the mirror and I have to admit, I'm not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be."
—Barack Obama, at the White House Correspondents Dinner
—Barack Obama, at the White House Correspondents Dinner
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Re: Article Discussion: Littwin: America's lesson from Libya
mike_littwin wrote:Snarkster,
You must be gullible, if you cite those previous "coalition" numbers as based in some kind of reality. In Libya, France has actually flown the most sorties...
Ok Mike,
Add France to the coalition list.
So now, including the US, Obama has only 16- still waaay below the coalition totals of past wars in the Gulf, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
So explain to me again how your claim, "This coalition actually was a coalition" is valid, when compared to Libya, Bush had three times the coalition numbers in Afghanistan and two and a half times that in Iraq?
So now the goal posts are moved closer for Obama and less coalitions make a coalition an "actual coalition"?
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